Santiago's transcript

Santiago: [00:00:00] I am 40 years old. Married for 17 years this Saturday coming up and we have four daughters. I'm a truck driver in Windsor. I've been in Canada for 22, since '96, and yeah, happily married.

RRTeam: [00:00:21] How long have you lived in Windsor?

Santiago: [00:00:23] In Windsor, since '98 so about 20.

RRTeam: [00:00:28] About 20 years.

Santiago: [00:00:28] About almost, yeah, 20, 20 and a half, almost 21. From where we came from, El Salvador, the government send us to Winnipeg, so we were there for two weeks because we had already my mom's sister in Quebec, which she immigrate a year earlier, and they went from El Salvador to Quebec so that... So when we got there we ask [00:01:00] the people that were in charge of us for the settlement if we can be moved to Quebec to reunite with her and my cousins, and they say yes. They paid the flight at that time and then we paid them back later. Then we did.

Then we find out that winter was very, very hard. Very hard to take, you know. We got there in September, and we never saw the sun. It was very, very gray and cold. I remember the first time that I see snow, it covers half of the cars in Quebec City. Then I see all these machines trying to sweep the streets with the ice put in the truck and take it to a lake, I don't know. After that, the [00:02:00] next summer, they had friends from El Salvador that live in Windsor because the church they were in contact. They said that Windsor was a better place for the winter. That my parents, my aunts said, "Yeah, we got to move." So we did. Then we drove from Quebec to Windsor.

RRTeam: [00:02:24] Is it better? Is the winter-

Santiago: [00:02:26] The weather, yes. The weather, yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, I think now I'm older and the little bit that I saw the year that I was in Quebec over there it was more seasonal work because of the weather. I was still 17, into 18, when I got there so I didn't see much how the industry was but I know because of the weather that it was very, yeah. Then here actually we came, everybody found [00:03:00] jobs. My parents found jobs right away and we start working. The winter was much better. Except for '98. We had a lot of snow. '98 or '99 in Windsor we had a lot of snow. That's the only time there was a lot of snow in Windsor. Other times very little.

RRTeam: [00:03:18] Which year was it again that you had arrived in Winnipeg?

Santiago: [00:03:21] In Winnipeg, '96.

RRTeam: [00:03:22] '96.

Santiago: [00:03:24] Yeah, September 16, 17, '96. September, yeah. Then from there, two weeks, and then we went to Quebec. Then we moved here at the end of '97 into '98, right to it.

RRTeam: [00:03:42] When you say when you paid back the ticket, you mean, who did you pay? Did you mean the government?

Santiago: [00:03:48] The government, yeah. When we start working, they sent my parents a bill through , yeah, the government because first, I [00:04:00] think we got like a welfare. You get into welfare over there. Then we start working, they would pay back. But just the tickets. We paid the tickets and even the tickets from El Salvador to Canada, we paid that back, too. We paid the money back. I did pay, that was still... Yeah, so I just give my stepdad and my mom a big thanks and bring them to dinner some time for bringing me here with them. Yeah, but they did pay. They paid for the transportation. When we got to, where we got settled now, we decide to stay in Quebec. The government also gave us furniture, gave us jackets, and boots.

I definitely was like an astronaut because it was like an overall, right? An overall? It's all the way up. Big jacket. First, snowstorm when I [00:05:00] just go into the back of the apartment and just jumped in the big mountain of snow. First experience, I've never seen that before. I still knew, I don't mind it. I don't mind the snow. I see a lot of people they're born here, they're probably thinking, "I know I'm tired of winter." I actually like it. I like the winter. I can't control my heat. In the summertime you can walk shirtless and still being hot. In the wintertime you know, you put as many layers that you're comfortable. I like winter. I know For being El Salvadorian, 90 degrees for 17 years back home but I still like the winter.

RRTeam: [00:05:46] Can you tell us a little bit about your life back in El Salvador before you moved?

Santiago: [00:05:59] Just anything?

RRTeam: [00:06:00] [00:06:00] Wherever you would like to start.

Santiago: [00:06:03] Well, like I said before, I come from a divorced parents. They divorced when I was five. When I was about ten to 11, I decide to go. I feel like I'm more attached to my dad so I told my dad. He asked, he said, "You know, whoever wants to come with me. If you want to stay with your mom." I said, "I'll go with you." Then my older brother stayed with my mom. It's kind of one this side, one this side. I'm always more close to my dad and my older brother was close to my mom. It's only two of us at that time. Then my mom, when she remarry, had another boy and then my dad had another boy, too.

After that, I grew up. After that thing, [00:07:00] because my dad have another wife so it was not always good. I kind of went back and forth from one house to another, which led to a lot of instability in my life at that age. From school, I miss a lot of school, I didn't go much of a school in El Salvador because of I was back and forth. Over there, you get spanked real good. In here, it's different. It's a different law, everything is different but over there... So when I get in trouble in one side, I used to run to the other side, until I got trouble in this side and then I used to go back to the other side. That's how I grew up in my early years.

RRTeam: [00:07:58] Yeah. [00:08:00] You mentioned that you lived in the city. The both sides of the city.

Santiago: [00:08:07] Yes. In the capital, San Salvador and just different cities. We can say Windsor and Tecumseh but it's still in the capital. And then I just started learning to take bus when I was eight maybe, a little bit of a young age. You learn a lot of stuff like that, you grow up very fast. When I say eight, I was taking buses already. Maybe before that, you can say I take number four, take me to this bus stop and then you take to the one this side. I knew where I was, and it's so normal. So normal.

RRTeam: [00:08:56] That was maybe '85, '86?

Santiago: [00:08:59] [00:09:00] Yeah. '88. Yeah, about that time. Then that's what the last offensive. The last war that happen, the civil war in '89 in El Salvador. I was about ten, suppose about 11. I was about 11. At that time, when my dad leave, it was very active area for guerilla, so terrorist. He brought me back to my mom. Where my mom lived, where my mom was. I was there and eventually they get there, too. At that time, I couldn't move back to anywhere. We have to stay there, you don't go out. You used to ...

We stay there in the [00:10:00] house and you just wait. You couldn't go out because the only thing you hear was bullet and helicopters. At night, you see the red bullets coming down, you know, hitting their targets. It got to a point where everybody run out of food and there were militia took cover the town were my mom was. Then after that, all the people were complaining to them, you know, "We don't have food, we don't have food."

I was just telling my wife about that too, that what they did is they open up all the markets. We were about 20 to 25 minutes walking distance to a market. A market over there opens and then they have stores around. Those private stores, like Walmart, they all open up, [00:11:00] the militia open all that so people can go grab food during the day. Me and my brother went. We were very lucky not to get killed that day because that day, they had a confrontation with the army. I clearly remember growing up behind a post when bullets were going by in the airplane.

After that, we took whatever we could and then somehow we made it back home. That's when I have all my memories, to see that people left and right where you see from the militias, some dead, some armies and everywhere. We always walk in with a white flag and bags of food supply, whatever we could find in there. That last quite a bit in there. That was I believe [00:12:00] was at the end '89 when that happened.

RRTeam: [00:12:03] That was a common practice, for civilians to walk with a white flag? Santiago: [00:12:10] Yeah, because they didn't know. A lot of people got killed like that, too because the army didn't know if these people was really civilian or they were the militia, the guerrillas. They didn't know but we always walk with... One thing I remember, is that nobody wear black or red. If we go out, we don't put red or black because it was a color for the guerrillas to use. We never, we try to wear light colors and white thing in our hands so that they know that we were civilian trying to get through.

It got to a point that the aunt, they had a house and that's more like a county, everything is more spread. We flee to that house where my [00:13:00] grandma on my mom's side, my mom's mom house, and we went to aunt house because the area, we couldn't stay. My aunt has four girls, too. Then my mom at that point, we're only two boys. So we went there. Over there, it was more, you didn't hear much bullet. They were not there. But it was a little bit of food, too. We had struggles trying to get food but just wait out until everything calm down, either the militia kill the army or the army kill them. I will sleep over, that's what I remember. Seeing all these people dead. Seeing the army just throwing gasoline over the dead bodies and just seeing all these flame and the smell of the burned [00:14:00] skin and seeing dead and the skull. I'm 40 now, that's what? Almost 30 years ago. This year I'm going to be 41 so I can still remember. I have that picture in my head, seeing that and seeing kids next to their parents crying, trying to wake them up. Like a head or something. They lose their life. I had the two grandmas. On my mom side and my dad side. They're both loving, at the same time so different, different loves. In my dad side, I don't know what it was but it was more special in a way because my dad was the youngest. So when my parents divorced, she kind of took over [00:15:00] his responsibility. She was like supporting us and helping my mom with our stuff that maybe my dad's supposed to do, she was doing it. That's something very typical in El Salvador, the grandmas take over the grandkids over there because their parents always working, trying to make it for the rent and stuff. My grandma, oh, boy. It's a very sensitive subject for me. If I get ... It's just the…

RRTeam: [00:15:32] Of course. That was the end or close to the end before the peace agreements took place.

Santiago: [00:15:43] Yes. The peace agreement, I didn't have too much recall of the political stuff that happened after the war because of my age. I know that '91, I think '90 or '91 was when they signed the peace. [00:16:00] I was 12, I was back with my dad because only a period that I was with my mom and then I went back with my dad. My dad always had my grandmother so that's one of the things I was there because I was attached to him. After that, we just try to get back to normal. Back to school for me. We were poor. We were a poor family. Over there, there's public school and private schools. I never went to a private school, always public school. There was not much supply or help or anything like that. Just [00:17:00] whatever my grandma could afford, we use, basically.

Back to the story about leaving El Salvador. I was turning 13, growing up, like I said, at school. I basically never finished high school, middle school because of the back and forth. When I was turning almost 15 years old when my friends and my friend's cousin start telling us... At that time, already my dad was out of the picture. My dad was already in California in the US, he had made it there. It was just me and my little brother on my dad's side and my grandma. My dad, [00:18:00] there was a period of time, maybe by the time he got to the US, he couldn't find a job right away so we didn't have a choice. My grandma used to clean houses clean, clean. Over there, nobody has a washer and dryer. Now they do but back then, no, so they pay people to wash their clothes. That's how I remember my grandmother most, doing that stuff. I used to go with her to feed us. It's very, very hard for me, too. I have all these ... Even though when I came here, since I came three months, I always tell the three months into my arrival, "Can I start work?"

RRTeam: [00:18:57] It's very fast.

Santiago: [00:18:57] Yeah. I was [00:19:00] working Quebec City, in a restaurant, Auberge Du Tresor. I will always remember my first job, dishwasher. They say, "Hey, go give me a bucket." I used to get something else, a plate or something. It was a big joke for them to send me to grab something that I didn't understand. But I try. I try my best because the Spanish and French kind of relate a little bit so I tried to grab on in some little words and also when... In those first three months, they put us into a class for adults. I was 17 but I was considered an adult in Quebec. They didn't put me in high school over there, they put me in this school for adults to learn French, it's called Cofe. It sounds like coffee, but it probably spelled differently. [00:20:00] It's a Cofe. I think it was just one F and one E. I did that for the three months or so, that's the only French that I learned with teachers. After that, I learned in the restaurant and the street, with friends that I, I made friends.

That was the first three months. I start working and I always send money until she passed in 2015, which I am glad I made it. I made it there, I made it to the funeral and all that stuff. That was great, you know, to be able to pay back a little bit of what they did for me. Going back and forth here but go back to when I was 14, these friends are telling us, "You know, my cousin [00:21:00] is going to go to America. If you want to go, we can go with him. He knows the way." That time, my dad, like I said, he was already in California. Then I said, "Where am I going to get money from?"

I remember I had this small gold chain. Very tiny. He said, "We can sell that." I remember selling little things and I made 200 pesos out of it. Then we left El Salvador in my pocket with 200 pesos. Then we took a bus from El Salvador to the border to Guatemala, which it was very easy. We got out of the bus and we just... It's like a big market over the borders there. People selling all kinds of stuff. You just walk and pretend that you're just looking and pretend that you're from there. [00:22:00] Then you walk to the other side, no security, no nothing. You just walk. Then the bus has to go for checkups and everything. You just wait for the other side for the bus and you get in and you keep going. We keep going to Guatemala City. Then from Guatemala City, we took another bus that took us to the border of Mexico and Guatemala, [inaudible]. There's a bridge, there's a river and then we got there late. When we got there, it was like maybe 11:00 at night, it was a lot of people. They knew that it was people that wants to go to US. As soon as we get out of the bus, it's like paparazzis there waiting for you. But not with camera, just telling you, "Hey, you know, we can help you to cross. We can help you." [00:23:00] Then this guy is supposed to know so he went with somebody there that took us to a little garage. They let us sit. We sit in the garage, we cannot sleep there. He said, "Give me your money." So we give the money because he was the older. We give the money to him and he was doing all the deals trying to cross. The next morning, about 2:00 in the morning, he say, "Okay, time to go." Then we went and they took us to the river, the aumaticos...

RRTeam: [00:23:33] Like an inner tube.

Santiago: [00:23:34] Yes, inner tube.

RRTeam: [00:23:36] Like a tire.

Santiago: [00:23:37] Yeah. The inside of a tire. They put us in this thing there with a piece of wood on top and they push us to the river. We got to Mexico, wow, we were so excited. Thinking that from there, the US already so close. [00:24:00] I guess I missed the class, the geography class. Then you see Mexico, it's so wide, you got to walk so much after that. It's just the beginning, Chiapas. That's where we went. Once we cross, I said, "Okay." Then we were hungry. What we do when we start asking for the train tracks because that's what the path to take until you catch up with the train or the train catch up to you and then you try to jump to grab on and to catch it. Every time it went close to us, it was going so fast. There was some people, I don't know how, they catch the train and you can see the pain. The… The train was dragging them? [00:25:00] Dragging them. Trying to get in and I was scared. I was little, right? So we just keep walking and walking. We walk the whole day and the whole night. In the middle of the night, when we couldn't see no more, we find this cabana? How do you say ...

RRTeam: [00:25:20] Cabin.

Santiago: [00:25:20] Like a cabin in the middle with some people there. They said that we could stay there for some Mexican pesos. My friend give a little bit so we can stay there. Then more people start arriving, more people from Nicaragua, Honduras. I remember older ladies arriving there with other people. Then these people were doing all kinds of tricks that they do, like a witchcraft saying that, "Look ..." With big cigars, they said that they smoke the [00:26:00] cigar and whenever the cigar ends, that's where they're going to end up. I don't know but I got scared. When we saw that, we got scared. I didn't know why we're going to keep walking so we keep walking. We keep walking into a point that we got into, we met this big bridge. The train tracks have to go through this bridge in the wood, then between the wood there was big spaces that you can see through and I'm a little scared of heights, I always have.

I'm telling my wife one time that day, I'm like a baby crawling because I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. It was so high, it was very scary. We did that all the way. We carry on walking for a couple days to Chiapas [00:27:00] until we get to Tapachula. Then it was the first train station that we got to, that we knew that now we want to get the 'Bestia'. It's called the bestia. The big train that's supposed to come all the way up north. The first night there that we made it there, before we got there through all the walking, the two days, almost two and a half days that we walk, we ate fruit from whatever we find in the way.

We got to the train station, we were sick because they have put chemical, pesticides and stuff. We were sick in the stomach, we were vomiting, all that stuff. Like I was telling you, some people saw us, they saw that we [00:28:00] were young. That's what they warned us and they tell us they said, "Don't stay here. There's more people later on. It's going to be more people here and these people, they're gangsters. They're going to take advantage of you guys. They're going to rob you." We got worried and then we just went around until we find a place. We find a tree that we climb up and that's where we stayed the first night in Tapachula, in a tree. I don't think... Because it was like this, you know. Holding on for one branch. But I believe in God that was watching us, taking care of us somehow because this people next day, we find all the people that help us. There was this guy… When we think how this guy show up like that, [00:29:00] maybe he has done that before because he knows that people that goes through Mexico, they have money or they have families that they send money because he was very helpful, even tell us how your parents, my dad can send you money here, they put in my name, you know.

Even my older friends, I had somebody that sent their money for the trip. He helped us, he gave us his backyard. I remember sleeping in his backyard. In the backyard, it has like a cement sink, big sink, and it's like a well. It's a big cement thing where they store water and they wash their clothes there. I remember sitting there in my back and that's where I sleep the first [00:30:00] night. It was covered. It was covered for the rain so people don't go away. Like a canopy kind of thing. We sleep there the first night and then he said, "You guys stay here." He said, "I don't have much to offer." He has a few kids in there. Then I remember the next day when we wake up, there was nothing to eat. They didn't even have for themselves. At lunchtime, I remember that they had a tomato, some leaves. What's it called that the neighbor has this smell? That leave the smell?

RRTeam: [00:30:42] Parsley?

RRTeam: [00:30:42] Yeah. Parsley, coriander.

Santiago: [00:30:44] Yes, the smell that you put in a soup. He put that in tomatoes and onions. That was the meal that they had. They give us some little bit of that. Then that's when they say, he told us that he had some friends that [00:31:00] we can work in the farm. I told him I never work in farms. The capital will have nothing like that. So that was my first experience. They took us there and then he says, "Okay, we'll give you this, a big tank of ..." It was chemicals to spray in the corn. Back and forth, this big ...

I used to remember seeing all these corn, I had to back all the way back and forth, back and forth all day. Maybe we made like 15 pesos, they gave us, I think, each. We bought small toothpaste and bananas. Then we eat bananas. Then after that, it was a big cry that night because we were worried, you know, and tired. You know, I was 15 and 14 maybe. More like [00:32:00] 15, close to 15 when that happened. The next day, we did that again until we finally got in touch with the family that they help us and send a little bit of money to keep going. We made it from there. We made it in one shot to Monterey.

RRTeam: [00:32:24] Who did you get in touch with? Your family there?

Santiago: [00:32:27] Yeah, my dad and my friend's family, they send money, too.

RRTeam: [00:32:34] How many friends were you with?

Santiago: [00:32:36] We were total three. The other two were cousins. The other one was of same age as me and then the other cousin was older, like 19, 20. He's supposed to know the way. The older one, he know. Yeah, he says he knew the way. He's the one who told us that was going to be easy. [00:33:00] But all these story... Here it took 16 days, and then one day to get back when we went to Monterey. The first day we got in Monterey, we got caught. We didn't have much. We didn't know. This guy supposed to know but the first day, we got there at the train station. Apparently everybody goes there but there is times when they go there, we didn't know. When we go there and we set a train, the next train that we're going to catch. So we saw him, the train was moving slow so we start running. Not only us, a bunch of people start running towards the train. Then we got the train, we got into it. As soon as we got into it, the train [00:34:00] stops. A lot of police pickups and they're all around us everywhere. I don't know from where they came. But apparently the ones we ran towards the train, we didn't know that this happen. Because there was more people that everybody was hiding. But I didn't want run when the train was going faster. Because we saw that in Chiapas, how people got hurt doing that. That's why we were one of the first one to run and that's how we got caught. We didn't stay long there. They took us right away and then they didn't treat us badly or anything. They actually give us good food, finally. I remember that, they give us good food. Then they asked us a bunch of [00:35:00] questions of where we are. Because going back to Guatemala, when we were in the second bus from the downtown Guatemala to the border with Mexico, the older guy that was with us says, "We got to get rid of IDs." Now when I think about it, it was the dumbest thing ever. Because if something ever happened to us, nobody will find us. That's how a lot of people is lost and nobody... We have, on her side, family, cousins, that we don't know. They don't know where they end up, we never found them, nothing. Because I don't know why would this guy said that, why they do that but we got... I know why, the thing is if you don't have nothing with you, you don't prove that you're from El Salvador, you can say, "I'm from Guatemala," then they send you back to Guatemala [00:36:00] instead of going all the way back, so you can try it again. That was the main idea why they do that.

We throw away everything. I ripped my birth certificate and that's all I had. My birth certificate, which is a big paper like this, like a formal letter like that with my name on it. I had my student card with a picture. He said we got to get rid of everything. We get rid of all the IDs in there and then that's how ... When we get to Mexico and they say, "Where's your ID?" We said, "We don't have an ID. We throw it away because we didn't want you to send us to El Salvador." But at that time, we already cry, we already, you know, at this stage, we want to go back. It was very painful too.

We told them we were from El Salvador. That's what he, like I said, man, say something ever happened to you, they will never find you. There was no... How they identify? They [00:37:00] sent us back and then we made it to El Salvador about ten o'clock at night, downtown, which was walking distance. Maybe four hours from home that we did. We have no money. Over there, at that time, there was no phones, no cell phones. There was pay phones but we didn't have any money anyway so we just start walking. I remember walking, walking and walking until we got home about five o'clock in the morning, 5:30 maybe.

We get to our subdivision where we were. Then everybody went their way. We all hug each other and they went their way. Then we made it back in and I remember like it was saying ... I remember knocking at the door and my grandma opening, oh man. She was with the [00:38:00] broom, "Why you did this?" With a big stick and then getting beat up in there. Then after that, she hugged me and cry and cry. She gave me a big jar of choco milk. You know, I always tell her that in Canada, here, I'm a truck driver and I'm in lower city and I'm a local driver in the city and then sometime I just want to have choco milk and I just stop wherever I am and she's like, "Why do you do that? Why do you buy the big thing and you bring, you know, more is better. It's more economical if you buy a big jar and then you can bring to work." I said, "It's not the same. I want the carton that my grandma gave me." You know, the carton, [00:39:00] I open it, the taste it's not the same, having the carton, even drinking it from the carton.

I cut off a little bit because of all the calories but once in a while, I still do it. It's something that I keep inside of me because also she knew that was my thing, the choco milk. Because one choco milk was like three pesos. Three pesos was a lot of money, so I didn't have it all the time. It was like a special treat that she gave me when she work, when she finished cleaning and she got paid and stuff. Or maybe my dad send the money, she always give me for choco milk. It's something that is in my head, I don't know, it's part of my childhood drama that I'm having. My baggage that I [00:40:00] have inside. That's one of them. After that, trying to go back to normal and telling the stories how everything went and where I was. I was so sorry, I never do that again.

That's when they ... "Why you do that? Why?" "Well, I went to go to my dad." Because my dad was already in California. That was my goal, just to get where he was so we can reunite and help her and help my little brother. Who knows, maybe try to get them there too one day. But like I said, once we reach in Monterey, that's what where even my dad said ... Maybe he realized how crazy he was that at my age, I was doing that. He said, "You've got to go back." He got worried that's something will happen.

At [00:41:00] the same time, I thank God that they caught us there and they send us back. Because we, who knew right? After that, you have to go through a dessert. It was a lot more that was ahead that we didn't know. Now because of the news and everything, I know what's ahead, what was ... Who knows I was going to be able to survive all the walking from Mexico into the US. They said it's the hardest part, it's totally different environment. I knew my dad was there and he made it, I thought it was easy. That was the whole thing. That was the inspiration, I guess. You know, like I said, when I see my 14-year-old and I remember all this, I can't [00:42:00] comprehend or I can't imagine her doing something like that.

Her first time that she's doing a summer school for example, she's doing summer school, my wife dropped her off. I tried to finish work early enough so I can go pick her up because I don't want her to take the bus. There's a couple buses that she have to take to come here. She already did it a couple times and I'm on the phone, "Call me when you're out walking to the bus. I want to make sure you're okay." Because even though Canada is safe, but because I grew up in a very bad, dangerous environment, I still have that in my head. I'm more cautious. It's like, there is something that is hard to trust. "Now call me. I want to know if ..." I'm in the phone with her when she's walking from the school to the bus stop. I'm with her asking her, you know, "How's your day? How's your school? How's the locals around you?" [00:43:00] I'm learning to let go and let them have their own experience. I know we're safe in Canada and that's one of the greatest things. You know, I don't mind paying high taxes or anything because we're safe and I'll just pay for it. It's not like back home. You know, it's very different.

Right from the border of El Salvador and Guatemala, it only took three hours to reach the capital, another four hours to get to the border. It was very fast. Guatemala, to get to the border with Mexico, in less than a day, in a day time period, we got there. What I remember the most doing that and taking the second bus, the guy said get rid of that. Because now when I remember that now, my childhood, I realize how bad that decision was. If something [00:44:00] were going to happen, we'll be lost. Nobody will know where we are. Nobody will knew who we are. Because no identification, nothing. Nothing, nothing, not even ... Nothing. Only a few pesos that we have with us. Two buses. It took two buses to get there. After that, for walking and trains. When we got to southern Guatemala, it's like a big market there. You just walk and try to buy something and pretend and walk. You're like a tourist or something. I don't know. I just remember we crossed and that was it. It was very easy, that's why when we get there, "Man, this is good." Until we get to Mexico and then we cross the river. But from there, it was not easy. Not easy. Not easy.

RRTeam: [00:44:53] When you were in that tree and you had met person who [00:45:00] said, "I can help you." What was he like?

Santiago: [00:45:09] I remember he was tall and muscular, a mature man with a Mexican mustache. This guy's voice says, "It's very dangerous here. I live a few blocks away, I can help. I don't have much to offer." He took us in. Because before this guy, there was another lady who warned us about that place. I don't know. Well, I was just following the older guy and he's the one who did all most of the talking because the people were with him, they used to talk more to him, he was the oldest so we just follow him. We end up in this [00:46:00] guy's backyard and he told us that he ... If it's true or not, I don't ... You know, it's only he knows but he told us that he used to be part of the federal, the Mexican police at some point in his life. Who knows, maybe but maybe he said that because we were boys and then just in case he didn't know us, we could be bad people, too. That's what he told us. He let us enter his backyard. We say thank you. I remember saying thank you and we give him some leftover money when we got the money from our families, we gave him some money. From that experience, I always will remember the meal that we'd share. The soup, it's just [00:47:00] water, boiled water with tomato, onions, and these green leaves. That was it. And he give that to his kids.

In this house, when we eat, we always pray and give thanks and we eat everything in that plate. I always tell my kids, "You guys got to eat everything." They said, "We don't want this vegetable. We don't want zucchini." I've got a couple like that, "We don't want broccoli." I say, "You better eat it because some kids ..." Because I seen it.

My other friend, which his dad and my dad were friends, too. We keep hanging out. I have a picture with him, too, that another friend that is in Texas now, he sent me the picture through Facebook. He say, "I found this picture." I'm there with this guy in that picture. We keep just [00:48:00] growing together as a teenagers in there and then they got to a point that there was more teenagers, around more friends and everybody got their own life. I don't know. I lost totally since I moved to Canada, I lost contact with him. To this day, I have some friends from where I am from because of Facebook but not him, I never found him in Facebook. I hope he's okay. I hope ...

There's another friend that we were very close. Then his nickname was Foco. Foco is lightbulb because of the shaped of his head. He was going to be the fourth guy coming with us but he couldn't get 200 pesos so he stays behind. I still [00:49:00] am in touch with him through Facebook. It's good to have the memories that we share. Then a couple of times that I've been back, I met with him and I always tried to bring something, clothes I bring something to him because we were in the same boat. We come with a very poor family. Totally, we grew up playing with no shoes, soccer in the streets and I'm going to school with, I even have pictures there, I showed [my wife] that my shoes, you can see my finger coming out in one side. I'm glad. I'm just glad that I had that experience, I'm glad that I grew up like that because I think it made me a better person now, it makes me, you know, a [00:50:00] warrior in a way of life. Working since we got here in Canada. I could totally start working three months after I came to Canada and I haven't stopped ever since. I'm glad. I'm glad that my kids don't have to go through that.

At the same time, we try not to spoil them too much either. Because sometimes they take you for granted. But we try always to tell them. I wish I can show them. I wish I can show them where I used to live. We never own a house, we're always only renting little rooms. In that little room, you had the little kitchen inside and the bed to the side, you put a curtain or something just to divide for your privacy. That was it. Yeah. I hope they believe me and they get the picture. They imagine the things, so [00:51:00] different to how ... I always try to work hard to give them the best.

After seeing my grandma, I have to go see her because she find out that I'm back and she's like, "You have to come see me." So I went to see her and thank God she wasn't waiting with the broom. I remember she was giving me this big hug and tell me, "Why? Why? Why? Why you do this? You know, we've been doing this and we've been applying. We applied to go to Canada for refugee." I said, "I didn't know." I had no idea that two years later, I was going to take a plane to come here. But I'm just glad. I'm glad that I was one of the lucky ones, that [00:52:00] I survived. I survived that experience, I survived the opportunity to get out of the country.

A lot of my friends ... None of my friends that I know growing up got here. Like this guy, [my friend], I wish that he somehow made it to Canada but they never did, they never, I don't think their parents apply. Also, it is very common to be in a broken family over there, his mom was divorced, too. She was a single mom so he was with his mom, he never knew nothing about his dad. So it was pay higher. I'm just glad that my mom and my stepdad, their situation led them to the Consul of Canada.

RRTeam: [00:52:59] Do [00:53:00] you know how they knew about it when they applied?

Santiago: [00:53:04] Well, because of my other aunts. The youngest sister of my mom, when she got married, she apply with her husband. They apply to Canada and in Australia, because all their friends. It's only a word of the mouth, everybody's fleeing the country somehow because of the situation. They have everything that they needed to qualify and then they got qualified to go to Australia. That was my younger aunt with the brother. They went to Australia. They were married. These two brothers, sister and brother, they were married so they brought their family together, they went to Australia. Then my aunt did. Then my aunt was the one who encouraged my mom and my stepdad, [00:54:00] "You guys should apply. You should apply. You have everything to qualify for." Because of the situation, the war and all the conflicts that they went through, she said, "You guys have everything to qualify so you should go try," and they did. Then it took six months. That's what my mom said, it took six months for them to find out if they were qualified. But before the six months, the first choice, because of my other aunt who was in Australia, Australia denied us. But at the same time, the same application was for Australia and Canada. So Australia say no, but Canada say yes. OIN, the organization was OIN, OIN, O-I-N. [00:55:00] That was the name of the organization. It just came into my head. So my mom, when I went to see her, that was when my mom was saying that they were going through all these things and then I said, "Yeah." Because she had all my documentation. She had my birth certificate and everything so she just fill me in with all this information, all the stuff they were doing. I know about my aunt left but because I was living with my dad, which wasn't even my dad, it was my grandma because he wasn't there. So I didn't know. Then at that time, my mom already was married. You know, when we talk about it, I said, "Maybe, you know, they said divorce affect the kids." We never been through divorce, you know, [00:56:00] but I don't remember how but now that I see, you know, you go it go by, I said maybe I got affected because I always more close to my dad and my grandma than my mom. When she told me that they were applying and that they got papers and doing all these things, I said, "Okay." After that, they start asking me when she went with me to get passport. We went passports and then we went for doctor's appointments for testing. What else? I remember going to this office and then showing us where we're going and where was Canada and then show us a video. I remember these videos with all fields. They show us the, you know, the windmill and the corn and [00:57:00] then the soya bean fields. Then I see Toronto, the big buildings, in the video. I said, "You see all these big fields." Thinking [inaudible]. I said, "Okay. That's where we're going." We were kind of excited. I didn't even know where Canada was. Because over there, everybody talks about the US. US, that's where everybody wants to go, to the US. Even though Canada is just one more step. Just a little bit north. When I think about it, it was a great feeling and excitement, but everything you couldn't tell nobody. You couldn't tell nobody that you're leaving or anything. I just keep it to myself and my grandma and that was it. Until it [00:58:00] became real, until we have the visas and everything and then I start saying bye to everybody.

RRTeam: [00:58:07] Why was it that you couldn't tell anybody?

Santiago: [00:58:11] That's what my mom said. Because of their situation and their safety. They said we can't tell nobody that we're going to leave. The Civil War and my mom and my stepdad, the place where they work, there was like a union over there. The companies have a union. In here, we see it as a union but over there the union were part of the revolution. So people infiltrate it. Once you work there, you're part of it. He was part of that and he couldn't leave. He couldn't say, "I'm leaving." Because that's like, you know, desert. So he have to keep it all [00:59:00] hush-hush until they got everything and they just go. We didn't tell nobody, we just go to the airport with a big white bag that says OIN. Because we have to carry that stuff because that was a big white bag with all our papers. The people we got from El Salvador to Miami, that was how they're going to know that people that are waiting for us. You know, maybe the government had already people that are waiting for the immigrants to help through the whole journey. We got to Miami and these people were waiting for everyone. When they saw the bag, they approached us. He asked us our name, they went through their list and they say, "Yeah, you're here." They took us to our room until the next flight and then we got to Toronto. Toronto, same thing. Then from Toronto to [01:00:00] Winnipeg. Then we get to Winnipeg, same thing. Everybody left from that flight. I remember that we're with the bag, I guess in Winnipeg, whoever it was in charge, they didn't get the memo that we were coming. We wait like four hours. The people in the airport saw us wandering around and they took us to a place and they called immigration and everything. Then they call the social workers and they came and get and brought us to a hotel for the first two weeks. They tell we're going to stay there until we called up and everything and then they send us there. Actually, these people that pick us up at the airport, the social workers, they were Central American ... Not Central Americans, I think this guy was from Peru or Chile. There [01:01:00] was a social worker already been there for years in Winnipeg that was working for the government, helping all the newcomers. It's the new Canadian centre kind of thing but in Winnipeg. They was waiting for us and then they send us there to hotel, they give us food and everything there for the period that we were there. They were looking for a place for us but then we decide to move to Quebec. My first time in the airplane was... I remember looking around, looking at the seats, the window, standing up, whenever you are allowed to stand up in the airplane. I remember the big airport. To me it was huge because it wasn't a full flight so it had a lot of empty seats and then we can move around. It was big. It was nice. It was nice. It was nice. [01:02:00] Something new, when I think about it as well, my first time in airplane. After walking, different view. Nicer view. Yeah, definitely. So it was very exciting. Very exciting even when we got to Winnipeg. All these big buildings, you know, you see that in the [inaudible] huge buildings. I just remember that I stayed in Winnipeg where the hotel was in the French area.

RRTeam: [01:02:33] In Saint Boniface?

Santiago: [01:02:35] Yes, Saint Boniface. It is a French area there. We're in a capital, Winnipeg, right. They told us like a French area. It was nice. Nice to see all these big buildings. We went from Winnipeg to Toronto [01:03:00] and then ... So they give us money, too to go from Winnipeg to Toronto. In Toronto, my other aunts with friends that they have met from church and the Salvadorian community there. They had a church that they go to. Somehow they got these two vans that came down from Quebec to Toronto to pick us up. It was late at night. I remember getting in their cars and just driving at night time from Toronto all the way to Quebec City. I didn't see much how I got to Quebec City because it was dark. But when we got there, we're excited and happy to see my aunt and my cousins. You know, we went through so much together, my cousins. Now [01:04:00] they're here, too. We all came back together from Quebec to Windsor. After being through the war in '89 and because my aunt never had boys and my mom had the boys so I was very close to my aunt and my uncle, too and my cousin. They were sisters so they were like my sister. It was nice to see them again and move together. It's good. It was a mixed feelings to leave El Salvador. At that time when I left El Salvador, I was in my 17. About 17. At that time, my dad was just back from California already because of papers. He say he got deported, too. He got deported so he was back in El Salvador and then [01:05:00] it was just a mixed feeling. I just remember the last night sitting in my dad's couch, sitting there and then crying and listen to the Spanish music. I said, "Take that off. That'll make you more sad." "Yeah, but I don't want to go, I don't want to leave you. I don't want to leave my grandma either.” Then he said, "Yeah, but this is the best for you. You know, in a few years, you're not going to think about." I just remember him telling me that this decision was good for me and then not to worry about it, you know, "Just go and we'll be okay." I have it very clearly my head, the picture you know, when I was just sitting tying the shoes. Because I get to go from my dad's house to where my mom was. Because we're going to live together with my mom and [01:06:00] my older brother and my little brother, he was five at that time. I remember my grandma used to make empanadas. It's plantain, dough, and they put fried beans inside and just fry it. Have you had empanada?

RRTeam: [01:06:06] Yeah.

Santiago: [01:06:24] She used to make that and sell it to the older people and all the kids for free, that's how she was. She never made any money. My dad will say, "What happened?" She gave it all away, that's how she was. I remember that and saying bye to her.

RRTeam: [01:06:44] Do you remember what song was playing?

Santiago: [01:06:51] Yeah, I still play it. The guy name is Jose [01:07:00] Luis Perales and the song is Libertad. It's about taking a boat and just immigrate to places in his boat. Actually, today, I listen to it. I have it in my playlist. I like this guy. The old song for older people but my dad used to like it so much so they used to play it so much in the house. He became one of my favorites all the time. That's my song. Last Saturday, I was playing it at my friend's house, at the birthday. Because we were talking about your song and this and that. When I say, "Let's listen to this one." That's the name of the boat. He's talking about a boat. It's a nice sound. I hope you understood all my broken [01:08:00] English. We were in Quebec City, we use to live in Sainte-Foy. We were there, I was working. Like I said, I was working. In three months, I was working, my parents. Okay, there is a little bit story here on my life, too, more stuff. Because when we got to Quebec, I was living with my parents, with my mom and my stepdad. We didn't last long, maybe about a month-and-a-half, maybe two. Because I wasn't used to it. I wasn't used to all the rules that they had, the new rules and all these with a new country and everything. I was 17, you know. With my dad and my grandma, I have more freedom and more... So I wasn't used to it. I didn't click in [01:09:00] as a family with my older... With my brother, no problem, but it just didn't click in with them.

When I start working, in three months, I moved out. I have more friends. I made more friends. I don't know why but it always was easy for me to make friends. It's just something that I still... But I moved out, I told her I have to work in, and I met another guy from El Salvador that works in the same place and I moved in with him. Then we rent the apartment in Quebec. What's it called? In Vanier. That's another little, Sainte-Foy was up high and Vanier was more downtown, the other way. The Old Quebec, I think it's [01:10:00] called. I went and live with them, since they’re working and everything. But I visit my mom. The relationship, it was better that way. You know, we got along better because that's how we used to be. Suddenly, one day she just say, "You know, we were going to move to Windsor and I would like you to come with us." I have friends already, I use to go out all the time. You know, Quebec is ... I like Quebec, it was fun. But then after that, my mom say, "We're going to Windsor." I said, "I'm staying, I'm staying." Then I went to say bye. Actually, the same day when they told me that they came and they're leaving, I went and I say bye and I went back and I went to work. Then when I came out of work, I went back to my friend, I told my [01:11:00] friend, "Man, it feels weird, you know, they left." "Your parents?" "Yeah, they went to ..." "Do you know where they're going?" "Yeah, they left me this number and then the address where they're going." "Are you sure you want to stay? Because you could take a flight." How much money I had... Everything that I work, I used to save it. I send my money to my grandma and then the rest I used to save. I didn't spend money. For the first year, I was using the same clothes, everything that I brought. I used to save it so I have money with me. I had like maybe $2,000. I have money. He said, "You can take a plane." I said, "How would that work?" He explained to me then we went to the airport. I remember making a backpack and I make a make a phone call to the phone and they said, "No, they're not here. They still coming down somewhere." I don't know where [01:12:00] they were driving so he said, "But if you're coming, let me know and I'll pick you up." I didn't know this person I was talking. But my parents knew, they were coming there, they knew. I said, "Okay, I'm going to buy the tickets and I'm going to be there." I don't remember what time, it was dark when I got to Windsor, so maybe 8:00. Who knows? I don't remember but I just remember taking the plane from Quebec to Toronto to Windsor. Sorry, from Quebec to Montreal, Montreal to Toronto and Toronto to Windsor. $400 I pay. $400, I got here, the next morning I was in Windsor. This was in Milling Street. These people were living in Milling Street with Windsor housing area in the west side. The guy who picked me up took me to the place. You know, "You can sleep here in the [01:13:00] couch, you know, tomorrow they will be here." You know, I said, "Thank you." Looking around, new again. This time, I only have again only my backpack basically. I use a backpack like this. Like something that you use for the gym. A duffel bag, yeah. That's what all I have with little things that I have everything else stays at the apartment there with my friends. I left everything, I just took the money. I came here and then the next morning, like six o'clock, ding-dong, ding-dong. I got up and I opened the door. There is the guy, the owner of the house with my uncle and my stepdad and my mom. Shocking, right? "You came.” My mom start crying and I did the same. I couldn't stay because even though I wasn't living with them, [01:14:00] but I knew they were there. I knew they were there and then one day when I, everything settles and I went back to the apartment and they left. I'm in a new country, all these things in my head. Then when I came here, they were so happy to see me. Again, I stayed with them for another period of time. Maybe this time, I stay more because when I came here, the social work, we went through the social work again and all these who were with somebody's house, Windsor housing, you cannot have all the families. We went to a place, office to say that they were here and then they take another organization like new Canadians centre, help us to find an apartment. These people brought me to high school through ESL. Then I was with people with my age. [01:15:00] I say it was more easy. I stay with my mom maybe for over a year or more. Two years. Yeah, more than two years and a little bit more. I came more mature after everything so I stayed with them. Then I went to high school to learn ESL and went through ESL program and everything. Then after that, I start working again. I start working, I went through to my license for trucking because I know several, I have friends that they have, that's what they do for work, drive buses and everything. Even though I was always the youngest one, but they let me try it. I was always curious and that's how I learned. Then I always wanted to do that. So when I [01:16:00] came here, over there, you don't need license to try. Here, you need that. So I did that. Then I got my license and I started working. Then a few years later we met at church and four years after that, when we were 22, we got married. We got married at 22. I started working at this place where I am working now driving trucks. Actually, last week I was 18 years. We are 17 years married on Saturday. Then after that, it's been quite a ride. It's been awesome. With lot of memories, bad and good. You know, I feel blessed and lucky that I was one of the... For me, [01:17:00] coming here was winning the lottery kind of thing. Trying to make it out of El Salvador in one piece anyway. Now we're here. I think one of the motivation was trying to help my dad and my grandma. At 17, the rules that my parents had, they're Christians, so many rules that we have to follow and we have to be like that because we're in a new culture, everything. El Salvador culture is more conservative and here is a little bit more open up, it's a little more freedom, you know, [01:18:00] everything's different. I kind of like it. I like it, I like it. Then that's really kept me going. I'm working, trying to help always. In my heart and my head, trying to help my grandma. I didn't want her have to go back and to be cleaning other people's clothes. She was old and also... Always sending money to this day. I still have my dad there so I still part of the active members of Western Union. That's a free commercial. Through the years, 22 years in Canada now. All this experience, I think now that I'm talking about it, it's emotional. You know, inside of me feels a lot of mixed feelings but it just made me a [01:19:00] better person. I hope it makes me a great dad for my kids, for my daughters, and hopefully they see it and they can appreciate what they have because they will never know. They will never know. Only the stuff I tell and my wife tell her life in El Salvador, how it was. Then hopefully from there, they can grab onto it and have a value and just value everything that this country offer. It's a lot, you know. Sometime I wish they would come younger so I didn't have to… Maybe I could go through school easier and have all these, maybe have a career. I don't know, but when I [01:20:00] came here, my mind was into work. I never thought about going to school because we weren't taught that back home, we were taught to go to work and to provide. I came here, I do the same thing. I want to work and I try to provide. I regret it sometime but at the same time they say, "Well, you know, we made it work kind of thing. I made it work." I can't complain. You guys are here with me, I have a place, I have a roof. You know, I have a car. Something that in my country, a lot of my friends on my age, they don't have. They work hard. They work hard. It's just a system there is impossible. Even if you work hard, [01:21:00] it doesn't take you nowhere. I just am blessed. I can say knowing how is back home, half of my life and the other half of my life here, now even more a being here more years, then it's like a born again. I left one part of my life over there and then you will have more years here. Now when I go back, these places I don't remember. I can't drive by myself in El Salvador. I get lost, you know. Only my little town subdivision, I can walk around. But even then it's so dangerous. But in Windsor, I go downtown, I go in the east side, then in the west. I know all the alleys. When the fire was here, I know all the shortcuts to get out of the traffic. I know all of these stuff. [01:22:00] This is home for me. I have my dad but in the back of my head, there is nothing that tells me that I will go back to live there. This is home for me. Now that one of my life, my love, my grandma is not there either. I was telling her the other day, little by little I feel like more detached. But I'm happy here. I hope this story help you somehow.

RRTeam: [01:22:37] How did you two meet?

Santiago: [01:22:58] Yeah. You were [01:23:00] ahead. You were finishing high school getting to college, I was just learning English. She was learning English. Then I met her at church in Windsor here. She caught my eye. She was always the quiet one. I said, "Interesting." She's quiet and that's how we became friends. We date for four years. Salvadorean parents so I know in El Salvador, you go and ask the mom or the dad, "Can I come and visit your daughter? We're friends. If I have your permission, I will come." They did. Thank God they did. They gave me permission to visit her once in a while. Then cell phone became more popular so we were on the phone a lot. [01:24:00] That's how we met and it grew from there. Four years of dating and then we got married. Well, it feels to me is an opportunity to do something for myself, for my future. For me, getting out of El Salvador and have the opportunity to be here was an opportunity to work hard. Because, El Salvador, it lacks of work. To be here and be able to have a job and to provide for my family and to be able to buy a house, that was this freedom. You know, be able to [01:25:00] go outside at anytime and not have to worry that somebody's going to come behind me with a gun and ask me for my wallet. Stuff like that. Even though it's hard that the cost of freedom is, you know, to leave behind my grandma that I love so much, my dad, my little brother. But that's what my life path took me. I didn't know, my mom asked me, "I put you in the list to come with me but if you don't want to go, you can stay." I had the option but I knew back in my head that there was nothing. At my age in El Salvador, I don't think I will be alive [01:26:00] because of all the gangs. Like I said, it was at the time when they're just starting and it was a big deal. It's a big deal. When I see the people in the US and Mexico, or the Central American, I understand what they're running from. I seen it. I seen the living in El Salvador and also as a visitor. I seen it. One of my visits, I believe it was 2010 that I went to see my grandma, [01:27:00] I experienced that somebody pulling a gun in front of me and asking for money. I know the dangers and all this bad stuff that corrupt governments and gangs make all these people wanted to leave at the same time.Sometime, I just stay quiet because at the same time I want to tell them, "Don't do it because of the dangers." When I see these kids coming with them, but I know the drive that they have because of what they see and what they live in, it's a strong push in the life to make it here. I don't know. For me, it's [01:28:00] very hard because, one, I understand why they want to do it. Also, I want to tell them not to do it or do either way my mom did it or find a different ways. But it's hard. In El Salvador, to have an American visa, you have to have properties, you have to have money in the bank, you have to show them that you're not coming here to stay. You have to show them that you have a root that will make you go back. In El Salvador, you're either poor or either rich. Unfortunately, I'm on the side that I came from a very poor family so there was no chance for me to have a visa. You know, [01:29:00] when I came to Canada, we were just permanent resident and we live in the border here. We went to Toronto and ask for the visa. There was nothing to it. I didn't have to have money in the bank, but just live in the border city and we needed a visa to cross and they give it to us. But in El Salvador or in Guatemala or in Nicaragua, Honduras, were very poor countries, there was no way people can do that. Unfortunately, they have to do what they have to do now and see all this... At the end of the day, the little ones are the ones who pays the price for [inaudible] decisions he made. But if I could do something, I will tell them not [01:30:00] to put their life in danger but at the same time, either you die not doing nothing or you die trying to do something. I did it. I did it at 14, almost 15. Now I'm 40, almost 41 on November and I realized that somehow, I was one of those try to for the next... You know, something for me maybe, you know, just looking to see if we didn't have to miss a meal. Just something that came in my head right now, [01:31:00] my grandma had a problem with the lungs and there was this pill. I remember that this day, we didn't have nothing. I just left her. We knew we needed it for her, we didn't have nothing. It was the time that my dad didn't have, maybe he didn't have a job yet in the States to send us anything. I just went out and I was going let's say from here close to the mall. I see people that I didn't know, they didn't know me and I just asked, "Can I have a peso?" I remember people give me and I went to buy, you know. [01:32:00] It wasn't easy. When I think about it, I said, "Wow, thank God I made it here. Thank God that I had a chance and had a chance to go back and buy boxes." Because that's what I did, box. She was very special. Very special. That's why my oldest is her name. She carry her name. It's great, her name. I'm grateful. It made me a better person, it made me different, I guess, in a way. [01:33:00] When you asked me at the beginning, at my back of my head, I thought, "Man, we're going to go there." I knew that I was going to get like this, because even when I talk to my wife about it, it always touched my heart.

RRTeam: [01:33:21] I was just wondering, you know, if you could tell us why you were interested in sharing your story with us?

Santiago: [01:33:36] Because she said, "You know, you can share your story." Then I say, "Why not when it's something ... Thank you, something that it will stay with me and I share with my kids, this experience that I had?" At that young age, crossing the border, trying to make it [01:34:00] because of the situation in El Salvador. Unfortunately, we grew up with smaller resources, little bit of resources. Always trying to survive, that's how I grew up. Trying to survive, try to make it the next day.

RRTeam: [01:34:36] Now do you drive to the States a lot?

Santiago: [01:34:39] I do. I do. We go over for Mexican food. You know, we had the Mexican downtown there, we go there in the sport events. I'm very fortunate. Now, we're even in Windsor. [01:35:00] Even in Windsor, how long we're going to stay, two hours. That's why. If they only knew when I was little I try to make it in their country. I'm sorry.

RRTeam: [01:35:14] That's okay.

Santiago: [01:35:18] It's great. It's great to… I'm being grateful to carry a very strong passport. It doesn't matter that, I don't know if they notice that it says born in El Salvador. They don't question that. They just see the Canadian passport and then they let you in and out. Well, maybe it's going to be a little bit weird but if I'm in the States, I'm a strong supporter. Then you said, "What?" In [01:36:00] Canada, the policies in Canada right now, I like to listen as much as I can to learn, you know. I like to hear what's going on. In Canada, it's always the open policy they has for immigrants it's always very positive and that's what makes this country great. At the same time, I think that sometime it's too wide open but I know that's just political parties and just different views. We're in the conservative side. I know they're just trying to do their best, right? [01:37:00] In the US, all these people you see, they're trying to get into the US, they're not all Mexican, they're all not Latin Americans even though sometimes they look like but they probably could be from somewhere else, too. I have friends now here that from other parts of the country say, "You know, I came from Mexico." "Really? How you came from Mexico?" "We took a boat from Europe and then we get to Mexico and that's how we got in." So these guy is right, so it is true the culture infiltrate through the border there. But it's hard. It's just hard because the language that they use, sometimes it's very hard. Even though I think this guy is right, at the same time, sometime he goes off rail and what [01:38:00] he did good with one hand, he destroy with the other hand. It's just the life of politics. Both sides, they have their ups and downs. I don't know what else to say about that, I'm just glad that Canada is totally different. Hopefully we get a prime minister, maybe we change it this year. I know he's a good guy but maybe we need a change. I don't know. What do you think?

RRTeam: [01:38:37] I think they have a very hard job.

Santiago: [01:38:41] Very hard job. Very hard job. In the news, sometime they don't tell us everything so the perspective change. We hear only one side, we don't hear the other side. Hopefully you get to meet more people like that, you know, all the stories I hear and then they [01:39:00] say, "Wow." You got to remember, he's not that good, so he had it good. He had it good. I think I had that. At least the war that I saw, it was at the end, my parents had more stuff. I just saw the end, the last ones. It's just great to be here in Canada.